HG owes us nothing?

Someone mentioned that on Zen's blog and I thought it would make an interesting topic for discussion.

So, that guy says HG owes us nothing, but what do you think?

Personally, I believe they don't but that still doesn't excuse the half ass movie that was the shadow chronicles.

I mean if you're going to give fans something, at least make it something good! Is that so hard to ask? They may owe us nothing, but if they're gonna give us something, put hard work and dedication into it. Robotech's fandom may be small but it still exists and if you want to keep it, then keep the fans happy.

In a completely abstract, academic way, HG does not owe the fans anything. This is most certainly the case. However...

In a realistic sense, HG does owe somethig to the fans that have kept RT alive. Without them, Rt would simply be another one of those '80s cartoons that fades into obscurity, remembered by a few people as 'That show with those tranforming robots... No, not that one, the other one..."

A subtle debate, to be sure.

Viper wrote:

In a completely abstract, academic way, HG does not owe the fans anything. This is most certainly the case. However...

In a realistic sense, HG does owe somethig to the fans that have kept RT alive. Without them, Rt would simply be another one of those '80s cartoons that fades into obscurity, remembered by a few people as 'That show with those tranforming robots... No, not that one, the other one..."

A subtle debate, to be sure.

good answer! I have the same views as well, the fans are what made RT what it is today, even if it's not the largest fan base, it's still a fan base and if HG wants to keep it, they've got to start doing a better job, this includes improvement in all future productions.

Usually when people say "[Entertainment Producer X] owes you nothing" they mean that a creator shouldn't compromise their vision for the sake of what the fans want, which is something I can get behind.

Harmony Gold, however, doesn't have a singular creator or vision (possibly Macek once came close, but that's muddled due to Robotech's origins), and it's already been "compromised" due to legal rights issues preventing a really organic, multifaceted conclusion that does justice to all aspects of Robotech,
so things just...roll along.

But good quality isn't a thing "owed": it's something that should come naturally from the work produced, not as a result of wanting to cater to somebody. So that issue
isn't a matter of owing anything, it's that we need some damn quality
here: new characters which aren't dull, new stories which are better,
etc.

Sadly, it's looking more and more like a pipe dream, which is one of the reasons I've given up on the Shadows continuity.

*shrug* What were you expecting? This IS Harmony Gold we're talking about. They've demonstrated time and time again that not only do they not have a clue what the Robotech fanbase wants, they don't even know how old the majority of its members are.

Speaking personally, this crap is all new to me: I avoided hearing anything about Robotech but its origins/composition until way into my anime game. I had no idea who Harmony Gold was, or what they were doing or at least promising to do. Even the Robotech apocrypha was published before my time.

I've only been at this for under two years, and the clunkiness, lies, and stupidity has taken a while to sink in, waiting until after the initial buzz of discovering a new toy to play with wore of and I was done exploring all the old bits of Robotech that everybody knew already.

Better stop this before it turns into a Why I Bother rant....

incisivis wrote:

Speaking personally, this crap is all new to me: I avoided hearing anything about Robotech but its origins/composition until way into my anime game. I had no idea who Harmony Gold was, or what they were doing or at least promising to do. Even the Robotech apocrypha was published before my time.

I've only been at this for under two years, and the clunkiness, lies, and stupidity has taken a while to sink in, waiting until after the initial buzz of discovering a new toy to play with wore of and I was done exploring all the old bits of Robotech that everybody knew already.

Better stop this before it turns into a Why I Bother rant....

nothing wrong with ranting, sometimes it's good to let off some steam.
But when it comes to HG it's easy to realize just how much they are lacking.
I've been a RT fan since 1997, when I first discovered it on cartoon networks toonami, and then later on when robotech.com first launched I'd lurk until I felt like joining.
HG likes to make promises and break them, they did it with the sentinels, and robotech 3000. And right about now its looking like the same crap is going to go down with TSC
but that is the least of my concern.

Right now the main problem is the fact fans are unable to express themselves, unless it is in a positive manner. You have to praise HG and the new robotech or you are not welcome on their site, it's as simple as that. And it's even worse when there are certain fans who support and kiss their asses, relaying any information regarding negativity towards the company and TSC.

It's all one pile of crap, and even worse than such people have to come to a site like this just to be able to say "the shadow chronicles sucks" without getting threatened by the banhammer.

But this site exists so fans can express themselves and share their works. We're more of a expansion of the fandom than anything else. We've just got the option to criticize HG as we please.

I find it odd that I was never banned from there: not that I was outspoken, but I tossed in a few comments to the effect that Robotech was doomed and Shadow Chronicles really had the same problems as all the old expanded continuity did, despite the unspoken idea that they were going to start over with something better.

Truth of truths, I'm the sort of person who prefers to talk about what she enjoys, not what she hates. When it comes to attacking the Shadows stuff, I go mostly on the memories, after seeing/reading PTSC and The Shadow Chronicles way at the beginning of my interest, and deciding I wasn't going to touch 'em again.

I know the old Robotech novels and comics weren't any good, either, but there was still things you could have fun with, so at the core of any critiques I might make, there is some enjoyment, some urge to engage.

That's why I bother: for now at least, I like playing around with Robotech apocrypha in my headspace.The Shadows stuff is just dull and lifeless and you get the sense that its time has passed by, so I'm not going to see it again.

incisivis wrote:

I find it odd that I was never banned from there: not that I was outspoken, but I tossed in a few comments to the effect that Robotech was doomed and Shadow Chronicles really had the same problems as all the old expanded continuity did, despite the unspoken idea that they were going to start over with something better.

Truth of truths, I'm the sort of person who prefers to talk about what she enjoys, not what she hates. When it comes to attacking the Shadows stuff, I go mostly on the memories, after seeing/reading PTSC and The Shadow Chronicles way at the beginning of my interest, and deciding I wasn't going to touch 'em again.

I know the old Robotech novels and comics weren't any good, either, but there was still things you could have fun with, so at the core of any critiques I might make, there is some enjoyment, some urge to engage.

That's why I bother: for now at least, I like playing around with Robotech apocrypha in my headspace.The Shadows stuff is just dull and lifeless and you get the sense that its time has passed by, so I'm not going to see it again.

you got lucky you weren't ever banned, though if you were to say something now over there probably, especially with Memo as a mod. He also believes that anything said elsewhere like this site for example, is grounds for a banning on robotech.com
which is another thing that is really pathetic. The company can't produce a good series or affordable merchandise, yet they can ban you for saying something negative about them on another site.

Anyways its good that you don't waste your time hating anything, in all honesty I don't either. The only time I ever hate on HG or the new robotech is if someone brings it up. I don't intentionally bash it, because there's no point.

HG never owed anyone anything...

And yet,

HG (like many owners of IP's produced in different types of formats) fell into some general attitudes: (pardon my language)

A.) It's our franchise, we can do whatever the fuck we want to it.

B.) Fanbase? Every generation gives us a new fanbase and the past is old and outdated. Your little snot machines will be our fans and so will theirs while you grow old and die off (obsolete people).

C.) If you can't support the visionaries of the NEW direction we are taking the franchise in, then obviously you aren't (and were never) a fan!. You must support us and everything we do 1000% or GTFO...


Some recent examples of Fans getting the middle finger:

1.) NBSG

2.) Transformers

3.) GI Joe (I actually haven't seen it yet)

4.) Flash Gordon... UGH!


So to the next Producer wanna be out there, before you rape another peice of someone's childhood, think about this.

If an IP exists, no matter what status it is, if your bright idea is to retcon or re-imagine it, then guess what?

YOU AINT FUCKING ORIGINAL... (Get over yourselves and go out and create an IP from SCRATCH and actually impress someone for once.)

Otherwise you're about as valid as your typical fanfiction author...

Star Dragon wrote:

HG never owed anyone anything...

And yet,

HG (like many owners of IP's produced in different types of formats) fell into some general attitudes: (pardon my language)

A.) It's our franchise, we can do whatever the fuck we want to it.

B.) Fanbase? Every generation gives us a new fanbase and the past is old and outdated. Your little snot machines will be our fans and so will theirs while you grow old and die off (obsolete people).

C.) If you can't support the visionaries of the NEW direction we are taking the franchise in, then obviously you aren't (and were never) a fan!. You must support us and everything we do 1000% or GTFO...


Some recent examples of Fans getting the middle finger:

1.) NBSG

2.) Transformers

3.) GI Joe (I actually haven't seen it yet)

4.) Flash Gordon... UGH!


So to the next Producer wanna be out there, before you rape another peice of someone's childhood, think about this.

If an IP exists, no matter what status it is, if your bright idea is to retcon or re-imagine it, then guess what?

YOU AINT FUCKING ORIGINAL... (Get over yourselves and go out and create an IP from SCRATCH and actually impress someone for once.)

Otherwise you're about as valid as your typical fanfiction author...

well said

Eh...generally listening to fans is a bad idea, not the least of which because ask fans what they want, and you'll get a bunch of different answers, and most of the time, fans are just interested in satisfying their personal indulgences rather than telling a well-rounded story with wide appeal.

(Or is that just me?)

Anyway, what we've got here is just a company run by people who have no idea what they're doing, not that they aren't listening to the fans.

Don't ask me what should be done, because I have no idea.

No, Transformers HAS no main continuity. It's just a bunch of different stories, sometimes part of the same continuity, sometimes not.

Retconning is when you change something previously-established within a single continuity.

/nitpicky bitch

HG owes us a ham ! OM NOM NOM

Star Dragon wrote:

So to the next Producer wanna be out there, before you rape another peice of someone's childhood, think about this.
If an IP exists, no matter what status it is, if your bright idea is to retcon or re-imagine it, then guess what?
YOU AINT FUCKING ORIGINAL... (Get over yourselves and go out and create an IP from SCRATCH and actually impress someone for once.)
Otherwise you're about as valid as your typical fanfiction author...

Looks in a mirror...

Ouch!