Don't know why I waste my time

So every once in a while I poke my head in back at RT.com and I look at what I left behind.. and Ya.. not overly exciting!

What I am trying to figure out though, and maybe this really is just the insanity that grips hold of the mods....

Why do Fric and Frac continuously tie Shadow Rising to the RLAM? Its like "oh.. if you question HG regarding SR and they finally give in, then you will have destroyed the RLAM because WB is gonna be pissed" or something to that effect.

I seriously don't even know why WB would even care about some craptastic OVA that HG wants to put out. The RLAM is apparently a re-envisioning of Robotech anyways... so there is no connection whatsoever..

Best I can figure is maybe, just maybe, if there is any credence at all to what those two fools are yapping about... WB doesn't want the franchise to be tarnished by crappy film, and that is why they may care at all about it and its release.

Shame no one cared about Highlander that much when they released #5... but hopefully the reboot next year will fix all that.. and we will finally see the game from Eidos.

(Wow... there are a ton of franchises all going through similar issues with their own dedicated fan bases.. i wonder how many are as crazy as the RT fans can be?)

According to public statements made by Tommy Yune, the reason Shadow Rising is on indefinite production hiatus is because Harmony Gold is hoping the success of Warner's live action Robotech movie will increase Robotech's standing enough to get the movie better sponsorship deals than Shadow Chronicles got. The stated goal is to get a bigger budget on more favorable terms so that Shadow Rising will be a higher quality product.

Whether or not Warner Bros actually had any direct input on that decision is anybody's guess, though Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION are nothing if not willing to see links where none exist to help them perpetuate the fantasy that Robotech is successful, popular, and well respected in the anime industry when the exact opposite is true. It's no secret that Harmony Gold's atrocious track record of failures and cancellations is what's keeping investors from putting their money into Robotech projects, and that Warner only picked up the live-action movie rights because they've been regarding the enormous piles of money Transformers is making for Paramount with envious eyes, and RT just happens to be a transforming giant robot action show that dates from the same period as Transformers.

Frankly, I wouldn't worry about Shadow Rising destroying the live-action movie. It's not like Shadow Chronicles made anyone in the anime industry sit up and take notice, and it's odds-on that Shadow Rising will (if made) fly under the radar just as adeptly as its predecessor, being ignored by everyone who isn't already a Robotech fan. I sincerely doubt Warner would even notice if the movie had been made, since any profits from it would probably fit into Warner's definition of "chump change".

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Robotech is successful, popular, and well respected in the anime industry

Well respected? No. It's been de rigeur by anime fans to bash Carl Macek and Robotech. Repeatedly. With a nail studded two by four. Early dubs and RT in particular have become the proverbial red headed stepchild. Now there's irony for you- bash the shit that made watching Japanese toons popular in the first place. It's true RT ain't no UC Gundam nor the Yamato franchise but folks watched subs of both b/c of dubs. I
Popular- this ain't SW or ST with the money to match. Robotech was a bargain back then and the production costs were mainly the ADR/voice dubbing work. And even that was skipped out by using non SAG shit- a big no n no in a company town like Hollyweird. Like the Big Three trying to build cars in North america w/o using UAW workers.


Successful- after the initial TV series? Not so much. Much time passed by and other things whittled down teh fanbase.

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It's no secret that Harmony Gold's atrocious track record of failures and cancellations is what's keeping investors from putting their money into Robotech projects

And that fundamentally is the problem. Robotech is literally a Catch 22. In short a dog that's fed shit sandwiches. In order to generate interest it needs outside investors so HG can crank out projects but they've fucked it up so bad over the years Robotech is literally an animated albatross.

All of this could be alleviated by competence but that requires vision that isn't induced by licking postage stamps w/ Jerry Garcia's tie dyed mug on them.

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Warner only picked up the live-action movie rights because they've been regarding the enormous piles of money Transformers is making for Paramount with envious eyes, and RT just happens to be a transforming giant robot action show that dates from the same period as Transformers.

Well if a hack like Michael Bay could pull it off... Course, Transformers is owned by Hasbro, a serious pipe hitter in the toy industry. Not bad for a bunch of plastic that Takara wanted to get out the door and into the hands of unsuspecting Occidental children .

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Frankly, I wouldn't worry about Shadow Rising destroying the live-action movie. It's not like Shadow Chronicles made anyone in the anime industry sit up and take notice, and it's odds-on that Shadow Rising will (if made) fly under the radar just as adeptly as its predecessor, being ignored by everyone who isn't already a Robotech fan. I sincerely doubt Warner would even notice if the movie had been made, since any profits from it would probably fit into Warner's definition of "chump change".

WB can afford to take its time. Or they can just let the concept die out in development hell leaving HG with a very empty bag w/ no other studio able to touch the subject of making a RT live action flick b/c WB would own such rights for at least five years or so.

In short HG has shot itself in the foot. They need outside funding for Tommy Yune's reindeer games but right now money is tight; when you're a company that tiny every nickle and dime counts. So until they get some sort of residuals from a live action they can't move forward. At the same time they won't march ahead to another awesomely shitty sequel b/c people haven't been too impressed by what the company has done in recent years- which is to say not at all w/ regards to he English speaking market.

tl;dr. To use the technical term, Harmony Gold is just plain fucked.

madmikechoi wrote:

It's been de rigeur by anime fans to bash Carl Macek and Robotech. Repeatedly. With a nail studded two by four. Early dubs and RT in particular have become the proverbial red headed stepchild.

And that's putting it mildly too... on many of the more popular anime sites, including 4chan's /a/ and /m/, trying to paint Robotech and its ilk in a positive light is usually considered trolling of the very worst kind and is almost guaranteed to get the original poster verbally torn several new orifices of indeterminate purpose and branded an ignorant idiot with no taste. On rare occasions, you'll find people who acknowledge Robotech for its historical significance, or who freely admit that Robotech is how they got into more mainstream anime titles like Macross, but statements like that are almost always carry a qualifying remark along the lines of "one I found out what real anime was, I realized Robotech is unwatchable shit".

madmikechoi wrote:

Now there's irony for you- bash the shit that made watching Japanese toons popular in the first place. It's true RT ain't no UC Gundam nor the Yamato franchise but folks watched subs of both b/c of dubs.

Macekres are unpopular because once anime had caught on in the Americas, people didn't want to watch dumbed down or rewritten material, they wanted to get the same viewing experience that the show's creators intended for the audience to get. Thus, rewrites are considered insulting to the viewer's intelligence... it's like a slap in the face saying that the rewriter knows better than the show's creator, and that the audience is too stupid to handle the original.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Macekres are unpopular because once anime had caught on in the Americas, people didn't want to watch dumbed down or rewritten material, they wanted to get the same viewing experience that the show's creators intended for the audience to get. Thus, rewrites are considered insulting to the viewer's intelligence... it's like a slap in the face saying that the rewriter knows better than the show's creator, and that the audience is too stupid to handle the original.

By that logic, then, anyone that watches manga-based anime is a too stupid as well, from the rewriting that occurs with that conversion. Conversion from one language to another typically does less damage to a story than the conversion from written/drawn to spoken/animated format

Wow... lots of interesting discussion, thanks!

I am wondering though, where, other than Kevin's psychiatric care for people challenging the HG company line, did any and all cash that HG got for the Live Action rights go to?

and taking a step back towards that Tommy Yune statement.. does anyone have a link to the statement and retraction from HG? Would like to read all of that.

thanks!

Ugh; why am I posting here on Christmas Eve?

Robotech is dead.

I don't think it's any kind of karmic occurrence worthy of celebration, though. While I wait for somebody to question my claim of being a "real" anime fan who initially viewed Robotech out of non-morbid curiosity two years ago, *I* still at least know it's true. I just wasn't angry about the idea of Robotech existing; I must lack the gene for it.

I honestly do feel sorry for those fans who are waiting for a Shadow Rising or a live action movie that won't happen, though that feeling is being rapidly worn thin by their inability to read the writing on the wall.

Basara549 wrote:

By that logic, then, anyone that watches manga-based anime is a too stupid as well, from the rewriting that occurs with that conversion. Conversion from one language to another typically does less damage to a story than the conversion from written/drawn to spoken/animated format

I didn't say it was entirely logical, I just said that's how it is.

Ultimately, I think what it boils down to is people want the same viewing experience the original (Japanese) audience got, and thus rewrites and even inaccurate/irreverent dubs tend to be the subject of harsh criticism.

whitehall l33t wrote:

I am wondering though, where, other than Kevin's psychiatric care for people challenging the HG company line, did any and all cash that HG got for the Live Action rights go to?

Who knows? Harmony Gold sure isn't talking. I can't imagine the live-action movie rights netted them THAT much, as Robotech is a relatively obscure series, and the franchise's reputation is such that they have trouble getting any money at all from potential investors. I'd guess that some or all of it went towards offsetting the profit shortfall that they no doubt experienced when the housing market bubble burst a year or so back.

Oh, my head is spinning! Mind if I chime in? I would love to see a live action movie, or even a clone wars style animation of new robotech stories or a rein-visioning of the original. What gets me the most concerned about the future of a big screen movie though is that warner bros is involved. Why do I say that? One of my big fan shows is Babylon 5, great story arc, great writing, and visuals, well for it's time any way. Well, WB has the owner ship of B5, and due to the way the company works internally, infighting some would call it, the show has not seen the love that over series have had. Series that come from paramont for example, were they don't have infighting among it's divisions.

Let me sum up my fear or concern;
1. WB makes a Robotech movie, but since the movie production dept must fight against the video rental dept, the movie is selved till such time as the movie dept can get the upper hand.

2. The movie is released to great fan fare, but again due to in fighting, a video release takes a long time, leaving fans high and dry for some time.

3. Merchandise such as books, models, toys, albums, so forth, suffer a similar fate, as that dept fights against the other two.

Bear in mind, my examples are very simplistic, it's late at night for me, but if you do a little research into the daily operations of WB, your learn for your self, how the company structure is. In a nut shell, each dept must show a percentage increase in profits per year. Each dept must battle against the other depts, for a profit increase, thus, there is no incentive for the depts to work together in order to bring forth a product.

I hope I have been clear enough here, I need to go to bed. My chin is inches away from my desk and keyboard now. ;-)

Do remember that the same digital studio that did such great CG for B5 in its earlier years, also was responsible for the abortion that was Robotech 3000....

It could of been, I would have to look into that before I could say. THough I do consider the fact that if HG does not have a big budget, a CGI house would have to cut corners in order to make a video. Was RT3000, a finaly production release clip, or an in production clip?

Brian3D wrote:

It could of been, I would have to look into that before I could say. THough I do consider the fact that if HG does not have a big budget, a CGI house would have to cut corners in order to make a video. Was RT3000, a finaly production release clip, or an in production clip?

The Robotech 3000 teaser trailer was, to the best of my knowledge, a specially-made demo video, rather than a collection of scenes cut together from the finished (or in-process) product. It was, at least in theory, representative of what the final product would've looked like, or at least a reasonable approximation thereof. Very little information on the series is available, due in large measure to Harmony Gold's attempts to have it buried and forgotten (which, IMHO, are entirely justified).

Basara549; I found the information on Netter Digital;

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Netter Digital Entertainment (NDE) was a company created by Douglas Netter in 1995. The company produced the show Hypernauts before moving to digital EFX work and replacing Foundation Imaging in the final two seasons of Babylon 5 as the sole producer of CGI special effects for that series as well as several of the B5 Made-For-TV movies. NDE also produced all the effects for its short-lived spinoff, Crusade.

With the cancellation of Crusade in 1999, Netter Digital lost its only client. They subsequently worked on the Dan Dare, Max Steel, and Robotech 3000 animated television series, but this was not enough to prevent them going out of business in 2000. They were replaced on Dan Dare and Max Steel by Foundation Imaging.

Apparently Netter Digital was started by some ex employees of Foundation Imaging. See below;

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Foundation Imaging was a CGI visual effects studio, computer animation studio, and post-production editing facility that pioneered digital imaging for television programming using Newtek's LightWave 3D on Commodore Amigas. They are best known for their work on the first three seasons of Babylon 5, after which they were exclusively contracted to work with Paramount's Star Trek television properties. (Some of Foundation's employees left the company to found Netter Digital and continue work on Babylon 5.)

The company was dissolved after work on season one of Star Trek: Enterprise had been completed and the company assets were sold off in a public auction on December 17, 2002.

Seto; I just looked at the RT3000 vid, and agree, let it stay buried! As bad as the CGI in Shadow's was, RT3000 was much worse!

Brian3D wrote:

Seto; I just looked at the RT3000 vid, and agree, let it stay buried! As bad as the CGI in Shadow's was, RT3000 was much worse!

Well, yes... but when you actually stop to consider the circumstances of the two productions, Robotech 3000 almost comes out smelling of roses compared to Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles.

What little we have in the way of hard fact after Harmony Gold's attempts to bury everything related to Robotech 3000 points to the planned series having been a veritable clusterfuck of bad decisions and inept management, all exacerbated by a profound misunderstanding of what the fans actually wanted. All signs point to Robotech 3000 being little more than an attempt to revive Robotech by cashing in on the relative popularity of all-CG animated shows. Work on Robotech 3000 supposedly began in 1997, practically right on the heels of ReBoot's initial televised run, and in mid-development the all-CG series Roughnecks: the Starship Troopers Chronicles started airing. Clearly, Harmony Gold thought that circumstances had finally started to work in their favor, not understanding that what their remaining fans wanted was an animated continuation of the original series... something that would be virtually impossible for them to deliver due to the legal ramifications. Exactly why Robotech 3000's animation is considerably less advanced than its contemporaries and only compared favorably to shows from nearly six years previous has never been made clear, but some fans point to Netter Digital sustaining significant losses on one of its previous projects, which allegedly resulted in the dismissal of its two lead animators in the early phases of Robotech 3000's production, though it's likely Harmony Gold's budget for Robotech 3000 was every bit as limited as it was for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, meaning high quality animation was almost certainly out of the question. (Tommy Yune has made remarks suggesting that the amount spent on the series prior to its second cancellation as an animated project was only around $500,000 USD)

To his credit (what little of it he actually deserves) Carl Macek claims to have realized that Robotech 3000 was a fatally flawed concept almost immediately after its rejection when the teaser trailer was trotted out during their annual convention tour. Of course, there's no evidence of this and it positively reeks of revisionist history. Given their own remarks, Harmony Gold apparently only correctly interpreted part of the reasons for the vehemently negative reception of the show, and tried to redo it as an animated series not realizing that while the CG being a poor substitute for the classic Japanese animation, the main reason for the fanbase's rejection of it was that like Robotech: the Movie, it had virtually nothing to do with the "original" Robotech series. Later, after spending even more money, they pulled the plug on the project altogether and laid the blame on Netter Digital, who had just declared bankruptcy.



By the opposite token, Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles started as an attempt to once again follow industry trends by mixing CG and conventional animation in the style of Macross Zero. Once again, they undertook a project with an aggressively small budget (less than $1 million USD according to Tommy Yune) and tried pandering to what remained of the fanbase by making the movie a direct continuation of episode 85. Of course, this had a few major problems... the original editors and rewriters had written the story into a corner, leaving them with no readily available enemy to fight and forcing them to work around the weak cliffhanger centered around a character they'd known for ages they couldn't legally use again. They also had to contend with Tommy Yune's rampant ego, and his single-minded desire to make Robotech his by discarding most of Carl Macek's intent for the series. With an aggressively limited budget, they couldn't afford a decent animation studio in Japan (even their long-time partner Tatsunoko) and had to cheap out by using DR Movie, a South Korean animation studio that specializes in tweening, and the animation suffered accordingly... leaving the show with CG that not only didn't blend with the conventional animation, it would only compare favorably against shows from over a decade ago, and was positively shot through with clipping and shading errors. The conventional animation and story suffered too, with Tommy Yune apparently wanting to imitate whatever show he thought was popular at the time, especially Yukikaze and the reimagined Battlestar Galactica series. The character designs and dialogue ended up being more in line with those of American superhero comic books, and the legal ramifications of using Macross characters forced them to slaughter most of the Macross Saga cast offscreen and redesign the only one who mattered... Rick Hunter. The introduction of "big name" voice actors to the project seems to have been one of its major wastes of money... a futile attempt to attract the attention of Star Trek and Star Wars fans. Mark Hamill was no doubt a very expensive hire, yet his character is killed no more than 15 minutes into the movie and has only a handful of lines, while Chase Masterson, who had only sixteen appearances as a minor character on Star Trek: Deep Space 9 to her credit (all as airheaded Bajoran bar girl Leeta, eventual wife of Ferengi borderline autistic savant Rom) was given speaking and singing roles across the entire movie when she can neither act nor sing worth a damn.




When you get right down to it, despite its inherently faulty premise and having animation quality a few years behind the rest of the industry, Robotech 3000 had more artistic integrity than virtually any Robotech title out there, simply because it was a new, original story created entirely by Harmony Gold's creative staff. It might've been a bad idea, but at least it was original and they were trying to be relevant.

On paper, Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was supposed to make Robotech industry-relevant again and bring in new, younger viewers... but in reality ended up being little more than a fan-film meant to appease the most belligerent members of its fanbase. Not only was its story constructed piecemeal from pieces of Mospeada, the reimagined Battlestar Galactica series, and Robotech II: the Sentinels, its CG animation would've been an embarrassment in the mid-90s, and its conventional animation was an eclectic mix of traits borrowed from American comic books and Yukikaze. Nothing about it is original, and it bears almost as little resemblance to Robotech as it does to Macross, Yukikaze, or any of the other shows it's imitating.

When you think about it like that, Robotech 3000 wasn't really THAT bad after all...

umm... wow.

and here I was thinking that my Philadelphia Union shirt was a nice Christmas present!

I wear these forums are the largest vault of knowledge I have found in a while.. and its definitely nice to be able to catch up with what I missed over the years.

I don't suppose Seto, you would be willing to toss that up over at RT.com so we can watch, Fric, and Frac's heads explodes and Kevin try to tear it apart line by line only to look like a complete ass?

whitehall l33t wrote:

I don't suppose Seto, you would be willing to toss that up over at RT.com so we can watch, Fric, and Frac's heads explodes and Kevin try to tear it apart line by line only to look like a complete ass?

I'd love to, but fric and frac revoked my posting privileges there some 4 months ago as revenge for my outing them both as frauds and habitual liars when they were hopping up and down in the Production forum claiming that Harmony Gold owned all the rights to Super Dimension Fortress Macross and the intellectual property it contains, despite despite explicit statements from Carl Macek, Tommy Yune, and the Japanese Supreme Court that they don't. I think what really was the straw that broke the camel's back was when I quoted Carl Macek from a 1995 interview he gave before Robocon 10 where he quite explicitly said that Harmony Gold knew they couldn't use the characters and mecha from the "Macross Saga" (due to their not being owned by Tatsunoko) in Sentinels, and didn't have the scratch to pay Haruhiko Mikimoto to design replacements, so they had to have someone at Tatsunoko make new ones that only vaguely resembled the originals.

I guess hearing proof that they were wrong from Robotech's creator didn't sit well with them.

Seto, damn after reading your post, it makes me weep for the franchise! If all HG can do is have false starts and a lack of original thought, in regards to new RT content, then it's time for new blood to take over. Hopefully, and that is a big big big hopefully, Hollywood is that new blood, and has enough creative flexibility given to them, that a reinvisioning of the RT universe will breath new life into Robotech. Of cause that's if the live movie ever actually gets out of the planning stages and filming actually starts.

Brian3D wrote:

Seto, damn after reading your post, it makes me weep for the franchise! If all HG can do is have false starts and a lack of original thought, in regards to new RT content, then it's time for new blood to take over.

Unfortunately Harmony Gold already tried the "new blood" approach and as we're all painfully aware, it didn't pan out anything like what was expected. After Robotech 3000 sank without trace and Carl Macek was let go (presumably rubbing a boot-shaped bruise on his ass) they brought in an obscure comic book artist named Tommy Yune as the new creative director... who promptly ordered the rebooting of the continuity, scrapping over 90% of Robotech to make way for new comic books that made no sense and contradicted established continuity, and eventually the retcon-ridden nightmare that was Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles. Other notable retcons by Tommy Yune include the excision of protoculture fuel from the Macross and Masters Saga mecha, and the reinterpretation of "Children of the Shadow" and "Shadow of the Robotech Masters" to mean the Haydonites rather than humans and the influence Robotechnology had on them.

The problem is that the inmates are running the asylum now... like many long-running American franchises, the steady downward trend in quality can be attributed to most of the second-generation staffers being fans of the show from back in the day... including Tommy Yune, Kevin McKeever, and Tom Bateman (the latter of which is now no longer employed by Harmony Gold).

Brian3D wrote:

Hopefully, and that is a big big big hopefully, Hollywood is that new blood, and has enough creative flexibility given to them, that a reinvisioning of the RT universe will breath new life into Robotech. Of cause that's if the live movie ever actually gets out of the planning stages and filming actually starts.

Yes, I'd call it "foolish optimism" if anything, since after some two years of claiming it's on the way, Warner's writers have yet to produce a script for the movie, and their big name producer left to work on other projects (though his comments carry the subtle implication that was happy to be shut of the project). I would say that if the live-action movie does come out, it will likely kill what little remains of the existing fanbase, who are used to at least marginal quality storytelling rather than bog-standard action flicks.

If the producer inferred that he was happy to leave the project, then I can only infer that HG is up to their old hand tying dogma, with regards to the movie script direction and creative license. I fear that a bastardized live Robotech film is the best that will come forth from all this, if it even comes forth! It would seem that the only hope for the future of Robotech lies in the hands of fandom based productions! Fan writen stories, animations, models, diorama's, and other such art works.

Here is a question, in regards to the site! Is it possible to have a section outlining material and resources that would benefit the fandom, with regards to their productions? This section would outline were fans can get the music legally, a general style guide on each of the three sagas. A time line to tie story into. Even a section for fans to list and volunteer their talents for fans to utilize. I'm sure you see were I'm going with this? Such a section would be a great help to the fandom, I think.

Brian3D wrote:

If the producer inferred that he was happy to leave the project, then I can only infer that HG is up to their old hand tying dogma, with regards to the movie script direction and creative license.

By all accounts, that's probably not the case... Harmony Gold claims to have "a say" in the live-action movie, but all evidence points to them having little-to-no control (creative or otherwise) over the production process. Basically, like every other licensee with no clout, they're just a rubber stamp on the license contract and a minor royalties check to print if and when the movie starts selling. At the time, it was announced that Chuck Roven had left the project to work on one of the Batman movies, though his remarks when leaving the project sound awfully like an implication that the project was problematic enough for him to be glad to leave it.

I'd guess that, if anything were to hold up the project, it would probably be the legal ramifications of trying to make an adaptation of Macross in the US, which is positively fraught with difficulty since Harmony Gold's partner Tatsunoko owns none of the intellectual property of the series.

Brian3D wrote:

I fear that a bastardized live Robotech film is the best that will come forth from all this, if it even comes forth! It would seem that the only hope for the future of Robotech lies in the hands of fandom based productions! Fan writen stories, animations, models, diorama's, and other such art works.

Welcome to about two months ago when the rest of us reached that conclusion.

Brian3D wrote:

Here is a question, in regards to the site! Is it possible to have a section outlining material and resources that would benefit the fandom, with regards to their productions? This section would outline were fans can get the music legally, a general style guide on each of the three sagas. A time line to tie story into. Even a section for fans to list and volunteer their talents for fans to utilize. I'm sure you see were I'm going with this? Such a section would be a great help to the fandom, I think.

For this particular site, probably not possible. Our options here are somewhat limited because this is a free-hosted message board based around fairly old software (phpBB 2.0.x). We can't really customize this site that freely, which is why we've been exploring options for a more full-featured site on a privately-owned domain. Since, when the idea was raised a month or so back, I was already several months into a very similar project, I volunteered to donate a subdomain and the requisite bandwidth to make it happen. Since I'm the only technically-minded bloke among us, it sort of fell to me to do the actual construction, so I've been working on that a bit over the Christmas break, and I'm optimistically hoping the minimum featureset will be ready in about two weeks. It should have a full-featured chat and discussion board, and will incorporate the replacement reference guide I was already writing.

Interesting, Seto. I'll be looking forward to seeing it.

Well if it is true that HG doesn't hold much say were the movie is concerned, that's good. As for the rights issue over macross related property, Hollywood does have a decent track record for negotiating, and can certainly bring more money to the table then HG could dream of. Assumed or perceived issues aside, that gives me some hope for the potential of a live movie.

As for my question on the site, I'll consider it one to be revisited in the future, for now I'll look forward to the updated, or replacement, to the current site.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

[qg 4chan's /a/ and /m/

Animu and mango is srs bzns .

All of chanology is just one ginormous weeaboo circle jerk but at least 4chan's/b/tardedness never ceases to make me lol. /k/ommando trollin' is mainly poorfags trying to show off their Moist Nuggets (dude, can't you get any other bolt action rifle? Savage No 4 .303s are still pretty cheep). I know, I know- off topic.

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On rare occasions, you'll find people who acknowledge Robotech for its historical significance, or who freely admit that Robotech is how they got into more mainstream anime titles like Macross, but statements like that are almost always carry a qualifying remark along the lines of "one I found out what real anime was, I realized Robotech is unwatchable shit".

Just b/c the legions of basement dwellers may chug the Haterade doesn't detract anybody's enjoyment of watching shit that others diss. Fuck- it's just like your opinion, man .

Robotech had serious flaws but for all Macek-is-the-Anti-Christ-and-Whore-of-Babylon-spiel HG was still castrated by the need to go off English scripts/guidelines provided by Tatsunoko and the need to link to 3 different TV series together and meet US guidelines for children's programming (not tits or four lettered words despite the fact that the word fuck is used as an apostrophe in any military unit worth its salt and combat arms formations seem to be run on pr0n and endless bullshit).

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people didn't want to watch dumbed down or rewritten material, they wanted to get the same viewing experience that the show's creators intended for the audience to get. Thus, rewrites are considered insulting to the viewer's intelligence... it's like a slap in the face saying that the rewriter knows better than the show's creator, and that the audience is too stupid to handle the original.

No argument w/ you there. which is why we torrent shit, occasionally buy, beg, borrow or steal dem funny toons and comics. granted anime and manga are written for a Japanese audience in mind and they often have a very different set of values than we do. So while the pictures might be pretty the moralfags might blow a gasket seeing a lot of shojo stuff is chock full of awesome yuriness (although by the same token infested by yaoi faggot tree) which naturally doesn't bother the moonspeakers. In short shit that come from other lands and is aired on TV do have to go some changes- often drastic ones.

Note the previous point I made above. Robotech was definitely not the only example. Card Captor Sakura (aka card Captors) and Sailor Moon seem far more egregious and HG would continue the combo platter trend w/ Captain Harlock and Queen Millenia.

And contrary to popular myth, CH&tQoaTY wasn't Carl's idea. Someone else started that abortion, and called him in after the fact to try to salvage it, since he had "succeeded" with the merger that became Robotech.

Brian3D wrote:

Well if it is true that HG doesn't hold much say were the movie is concerned, that's good. As for the rights issue over macross related property, Hollywood does have a decent track record for negotiating, and can certainly bring more money to the table then HG could dream of. Assumed or perceived issues aside, that gives me some hope for the potential of a live movie.

Eh, insofar as the rights to the intellectual property of Macross's original series, Warner doesn't seem to be at all interested in even trying. It might have something to do with Studio Nue and Big West's track record for snubbing HG and their partners when such licensing talks have been proposed in the past... seems to have something to do with an at-best dubiously legal US trademark on the name "Macross" Harmony Gold filed for shortly after it was confirmed by the Japanese courts that Tatsunoko had no control over the licensing of any Macross shows except the original... basically Harmony Gold was demanding all Macross licensing go through them and that they get a cut, as a way for them to keep the competition out of the states.

Brian3D wrote:

As for my question on the site, I'll consider it one to be revisited in the future, for now I'll look forward to the updated, or replacement, to the current site.

Yeah, we're looking at running it from a subdomain for now, though we're shopping for more permanent domain solutions already.

madmikechoi wrote:

Just b/c the legions of basement dwellers may chug the Haterade doesn't detract anybody's enjoyment of watching shit that others diss. Fuck- it's just like your opinion, man .

I was just using 4chan's /a/ and /m/ as an example, the general antipathy most anime fans feel towards shows like Robotech is by no means confined to that particular hive of scum and villainy. Your mileage may vary, but the vast majority of anime boards generally have little tolerance for rewrites, even relatively lighthanded ones done for kid-friendliness purposes like the butchering of One Piece. Sad fact is, shows like Robotech are generally considered to be somewhat less welcome than a slap in the balls with your own dead dog, and rightly so since what most people have wanted ever since the 90s has been faithful, accurate dubbing. You shouldn't let it affect your individual enjoyment of the series, it's just a sad fact of life that trying to spread the love of RT will likely get you smacked in the gob.

madmikechoi wrote:

Robotech had serious flaws but for all Macek-is-the-Anti-Christ-and-Whore-of-Babylon-spiel HG was still castrated by the need to go off English scripts/guidelines provided by Tatsunoko and the need to link to 3 different TV series together and meet US guidelines for children's programming (not tits or four lettered words despite the fact that the word fuck is used as an apostrophe in any military unit worth its salt and combat arms formations seem to be run on pr0n and endless bullshit).

I'm sorry to have to dig a massive hole in your attempted defense of Harmony Gold and Carl Macek, but the portion of text I've put in bold print in your quotation is an outright falsehood. It's simply not true. In actual fact, it was not the initial Robotech dub that was forced to use a Tatsunoko-supplied script (the original, aborted Macross dub is proof enough of that), but rather during the production of the Robotech VHS "Perfect Collection" it was the group working on the uncut, subtitled Macross episodes that was forced to use a highly inaccurate Macross script supplied not by Tatsunoko, but by Carl Macek's company Streamline Pictures.

A lot of the criticisms leveled at Carl Macek for his seemingly knee-jerk deliberate changes and astonishingly inconsistent writing are entirely deserved. It's really no surprise Carl Macek gets treated like the anime industry's personal antichrist... the twit's been bragging about how Robotech's story was entirely his work (untrue, the story is a slightly modified amalgam of the stories of the Japanese originals), how much better he thinks he made those original shows by doing what he did, and even going so far as to claim on several occasions that one or more of the original shows were made specifically for Robotech, particularly implying that Macross's creators worked for Harmony Gold (again, simply and provably false). Basically, the guy's methodology is completely and totally unacceptable in the modern anime industry, and his habit of lying to exaggerate his own importance and the importance of Robotech doesn't exactly endear him to many people. Yes, there were certain changes that had to be made, like eliminating the gory death and tits to meet broadcast standards, but most of the changes were not prompted by that.

madmikechoi wrote:

No argument w/ you there. which is why we torrent shit, occasionally buy, beg, borrow or steal dem funny toons and comics. granted anime and manga are written for a Japanese audience in mind and they often have a very different set of values than we do. So while the pictures might be pretty the moralfags might blow a gasket seeing a lot of shojo stuff is chock full of awesome yuriness (although by the same token infested by yaoi faggot tree) which naturally doesn't bother the moonspeakers. In short shit that come from other lands and is aired on TV do have to go some changes- often drastic ones.

Well yes, that's why we have such a thriving fansub system here on the internet, and why for a while there specialty channels airing unedited anime were quite popular. Yeah, the moralfags'll whine if you show some of the unedited stuff on broadcast television, but broadcast television (like radio) has been the multimedia equivalent of a desert for ages now, and the few dubs that do contain rather explicit content are usually handled in a way that compromises the story as little as possible... like the frequent nudity in Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion prompting the editors to just obscure the naughty bits with steam, etc.

madmikechoi wrote:

Note the previous point I made above. Robotech was definitely not the only example. Card Captor Sakura (aka card Captors) and Sailor Moon seem far more egregious and HG would continue the combo platter trend w/ Captain Harlock and Queen Millenia.

No kidding, though from what I've heard the one popular (:gag:) show that has truly been edited with a heavy hand has been Pocket Monsters, with the excision of more material than one could readily shake a stick at, including something like a dozen entire episodes because of relatively minor things like a horrible cowboy caricature pointing a gun at the protagonist, or the editors thinking one of the monsters looked like a performer in blackface and that the audience might think it would be racist.